Curse

Winterclaw · Jun 13, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

especially in a game with 10 classes and only 8 slots in a party!

Maybe GWEN will let us have a party of 16 and 7 heroes....

One can hope anyways.

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Maybe GWEN will let us have a party of 16 and 7 heroes....

One can hope anyways.

Maybe GWEN will let us have the choice of getting updates or leave the game as it is....

One can hope anyways.

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

At least it's a good thing they realised adding those 4 new classes added nothing but imbalance and clutter to the game.

Let's see how Guild Wars 2 fares and hope for them they're not dethroned by Diablo 3 in the meantime.

Lord Mendes · Jun 13, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

@ thread title,
yes it is right. Stacking loads of mediocre skills so you can achieve 1000000 armor is not good for the game, no matter how you look at it. Sure this makes some bad skills even worse and maybe makes the game a bit harder to play, but that is a good thing right?
You've all seen or played warriors that use 3 skills and end up getting hit for 0s, don't you think it dumbs down the game?

upier · Jun 13, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Maybe GWEN will let us have a party of 16 and 7 heroes....

One can hope anyways.

Yeah and while the masses decide if they want 1 tank, 1 mm, 1 ss and 4 monkies and 9 sf eles OR if they should take 5 monkies and just 8 sfs - the monkies have a bitch fight about who is gonna take healing breeze!
Ohh and "No heroes!11! they are teh suxxor!111!111"

(but seriously - 16-man parties would be superb!)

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

One idea I liked when reading this thread and the Dev Update thread was the idea of having various environmental effects for PvP. For example you can have an environmental effect that creates an armor cap, an effect that causes spirits to cost 10 more mana to summon etc, etc. In this way you give PvP the same pains as PvE players in high end areas, while leaving the PvE experience alone.

One of my largest concerns for a +25 armor cap will be how it will effect the PvE pug. With so many skills affected (30+) it will be difficult to manage player redundancy in skills. Many will choose to just HERO Hench it rather than engage in the fun dynamic of a PuG. This problem will not just occur in PvE but in PvP as well.

For example:
Player one: I have Watch Youself have the paragon drop Stand Your Ground.
Player two: No have the Warrior drop Watch Yourself and Ill keep my Stand Your Ground it's instant and lasts longer and helps the casters better.
Player three: Well I have Avatar of Balthazar neither of those will help, stack with me much.
Player four: Well I was gonna take Shield of Regeneration to help the warriors should I scrap it then for another elite?
Player five: Not sure I was gonna run Physical Resistance for personal protection but since the Warrior is using Watch Yourself I should drop it as well even though it protects better than Watch Yourself.
Player six: No have the warrior drop WY and I'll run Ward against harm for back rank protection since he has armor and we will just stay in the zone.
Player Seven: Dang now I need to change out Protective was Kaoli, are you sure you can't change your elite skill to some other skill so I can keep Protective was Kaoli for myself and Resilient weapon for the front line?
Player eight: Screw this can we just go now?

ANET your adding to an already confused public... ease the pain drop this idea before the pain is worse.

drakun01 · Jun 13, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

And yet another wedge is driven between the PvE and PvP communities.
Health is gonna' be capped next. And then they will buff Symbiosis.
Or wait? Maybe they will nerf something else integral to gameplay.
OMGNOPLZNO! Don't nerf spell casting! PLEASE!
You will only be allowed to cast 1 spell every 15 seconds. Because Searing Flames is overpowered in combination with a skill bar.

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

One idea I liked when reading this thread and the Dev Update thread was the idea of having various environmental effects for PvP. For example you can have an environmental effect that creates an armor cap, an effect that causes spirits to cost 10 more mana to summon etc, etc. In this way you give PvP the same pains as PvE players in high end areas, while leaving the PvE experience alone.

One of my largest concerns for a +25 armor cap will be how it will effect the PvE pug. With so many skills affected (30+) it will be difficult to manage player redundancy in skills. Many will choose to just HERO Hench it rather than engage in the fun dynamic of a PuG. This problem will not just occur in PvE but in PvP as well.

For example:
Player one: I have Watch Youself have the paragon drop Stand Your Ground.
Player two: No have the Warrior drop Watch Yourself and Ill keep my Stand Your Ground it's instant and lasts longer and helps the casters better.
Player three: Well I have Avatar of Balthazar neither of those will help, stack with me much.
Player four: Well I was gonna take Shield of Regeneration to help the warriors should I scrap it then for another elite?
Player five: Not sure I was gonna run Physical Resistance for personal protection but since the Warrior is using Watch Yourself I should drop it as well even though it protects better than Watch Yourself.
Player six: No have the warrior drop WY and I'll run Ward against harm for back rank protection since he has armor and we will just stay in the zone.
Player Seven: Dang now I need to change out Protective was Kaoli, are you sure you can't change your elite skill to some other skill so I can keep Protective was Kaoli for myself and Resilient weapon for the front line?
Player eight: Screw this can we just go now?

ANET your adding to an already confused public... ease the pain drop this idea before the pain is worse.

I agree give pvp their strong desired debuff this way noone gets hurt and everyone will be happy.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 13, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Different rules for pvp and pve could work. They did it with pet DP briefly, so it can be done.

Winterclaw · Jun 13, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I'm going to jump on the different rules for different areas bandwagon.

kvndoom · Jun 13, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Sheesh, I wish Paragons hadn't been created. Hell, I wish NF didn't even have new classes period. This game has caused more cross-class nerfs than Factions ever did. But this one is crazy. It might have been because of PVP, but it definitely hurts PVE a whole lot more. I play both, but I understand how this absolutely would KILL a lot of creative builds (solo and party-based) if it holds up.

Anet needs to fix the problem skills and the problem CLASS (you know who you are!) and not work around the problem. If they had kept the paragons inside a vacuum where only their own shouts gave them energy, a lot of nerfs would not have happened. Shields Up, Watch Yourself, armor buffs in general... how much more does the warrior have to get nerfed because of the Paragon?

Xyzzy · Jun 13, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Anet, the only programmers I have found that are worse then Microsoft. Well let be fare though they had to save a huge about of money by not hiring real writers for PvE. The story lines are more predictable then a white man's dialog in a Spike Lee movie. That or in Faction where you go half the game, where they got away with not using real texture mapping. You know the city that is made of cardboard boxes that it look like someone vomited on. The worse part is this, guild wars 2 is about a year and half off, and they still have not gotten the skill balance in the first one.

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

posted by kvndoom
Sheesh, I wish Paragons hadn't been created. Hell, I wish NF didn't even have new classes period. This game has caused more cross-class nerfs than Factions ever did. But this one is crazy. It might have been because of PVP, but it definitely hurts PVE a whole lot more. I play both, but I understand how this absolutely would KILL a lot of creative builds (solo and party-based) if it holds up.

Anet needs to fix the problem skills and the problem CLASS (you know who you are!) and not work around the problem. If they had kept the paragons inside a vacuum where only their own shouts gave them energy, a lot of nerfs would not have happened. Shields Up, Watch Yourself, armor buffs in general... how much more does the warrior have to get nerfed because of the Paragon?

Please stop with the Paragon Class hate. Stand Your Ground and a number of other shouts could have been warrior skills too. Fact is Shouts and synergy were around before Paragons were thought up or existed. The Paragon is a fine class and knocking the class when the class is not at issue here is a bad idea. The Paragon is here to stay and will be here for GW2 so get used to it. Armor stacking, was also, not alone to Paragons, and was around before Paragons began using Stand Your Ground.

Its amazing how deadly so many people think Paragons are and yet I can't get into a group in any Elite mission because I'm a Paragon. Paraway came about just like Barrage Pet Groups came about. No body liked or knew what they did so they just gathered as teams.

Good for them.

Gwmaster · Jun 13, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

meh, good thing i stoped playing 3 days ago. REAL LIFE FTW!!

Lord Sojar · Jun 13, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweat man

zog diddims, pve carebears need to think. what a pity, seriously. it just means that u cant use templated builds, now u just have to think FOR YOURSELF? wtf
this is not a big hit, it just fixes the PvErs that came to abuse TA/RA with that earth ele build crap, and the r0-3 pug fags that ran paragons like that. wow, shock horrer.

tbh, i realy dont care about skill differences and "nerfs" there will always be a way, u just need to re-think your build every once in a while...calm down

try taking an English class, it helps. A secondly, I take it you have never done DoA. Third, don't insult r0-r3 people, especially if your only like some "pathetic r6" or something. How does it feel? Don't put others down for your own lack of self confidence, your e-peen is really unimportant.

This is a fairly harsh nerf to high level PvE, due to extreme damage from Domain of Anguish (need I even mention hard mode DoA), Hard Mode Deep and Urgoz, and perhaps even FoW/UW. Shame on ANET for doing this, I do feel sorry for the high level PvE players, I really do.

You know, here is a thought... they could in theory seperate PvE and PvP skill descriptions, seeing as how the Battle Isles are where ALL PvP takes place, without exception. So, basically, as soon as you zone to Great Temple of Balthazar, all skills go into PvP mode, and when you zone into LA, KC, or Kamadan, your skills revert to PvE mode. I really don't see that as too much effort, going off the level of programming knowledge I understand, which is decent. However, I do not know the source code for Guild Wars, so perhaps this is impossible, but I really really really doubt that.

Ensign · Jun 13, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

One of my largest concerns for a +25 armor cap will be how it will effect the PvE pug.

Never having to argue about skill selections with Avatar of Balthazar Dervishes, Shield of Regeneration Monks, or Ward Against Harm Elementalists is a strong enough motivator to avoid pugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

SO ANET how does one beat DoA or RoT in hard mode now?

The same way you've been beating it for the last couple of months?

...is this a trick question or something, I don't get it. =/

Ork Pride · Jun 13, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

try taking an English class, it helps.

Nice one. You are the man!

Dragonious · Jun 13, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

try taking an English class, it helps.

Not only did he forget to capitalize the t as mentioned before, but he should have used a semi-colon after class since a comma would only be useful before a conjunction. I wouldn't criticize another person's writing while you make errors in your own.....PWNage in the 3rd degree

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

People have been saying it for so long, but I must reiterate.

Subclasses would have saved the game balance since Factions day 1.

Meaning no new Primary Attributes, only Secondary Attributes added to the existing classes.

Assassins should have been a Mesmer subclass.

Ritualists should have been a Necromancer subclass.

Paragons should have been a Warrior subclass.

Dervishes should have been a Monk subclass.

And they should have added additional subclasses for Rangers and Elementalists.

So much nerfing and imbalances would have been avoided.

Especially with the Paragon (though there have been others).

But back on topic, I agree with the environmental cap.

If not, do raise the armor cap to at least +80 AL, so that the stacking of two +40 AL skills isn't wasted.

bhavv · Jun 13, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Since I already use watch yourself + stand your ground in HM PVE, I can tell that this nerf is going to make HM missions even more harder. Yes, I'm talking about Vizunah Square.

Making it only affect PVP would be the ideal solution.